Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Steven Worth's post at the ASIFA ARCHIVE BLOG


Comment here.


Anonymous said...

I was the anonymous comment on the ASIFA blog. I hate to be anon, but it's really a no win game if you reveal yourself to Stephen Worth. He's got such a missionary zeal for his cause, I just don't have the time or energy to fully engage like you Steve. For which I salute you and wish you godspeed.

Under my current work situation, I feel like I can only post anonymously or not at all. I've seen how snark can get misconstrued by the other side and I'd hate for something to get heated here and then carry over into my show, annoying or offending artists I respect. Not that there are many artists I've worked with that I haven't respected. Though when I walk the halls, I wonder if some of us are arguing with each other and we're in the same building.

Ahhh... the internet.

For the record, while I think Worth is misguided when it comes to writers, I do admire the work he does at the archive and in attempting to preserve the artform.

Steve said...


Yeah, I hear you.

Personally, I find it a little sad that somebody chronicling the history of animation will never even consider looking at anything I (or any other script writer) do as worthwhile for archiving...

...and I find it sad that an organization I pay dues to, that I happily hosted the Annie Awards for more than once, would take my dues and efforts and then let me know - through tacit approval - that people like myself are unwelcome visitors.

I don't believe he's the majority opinion. I also think ASIFA is worthwhile and will continue to pay my dues.

But it's a bitter pill sometimes.

Anonymous said...

A different "anon" posting here-- also a dues paying member of ASIFA and TAG---

I think a great portion of the debate is that for many artists there is a fondness for only one type of animation (and that's fine) however-- The "Classic" golden era is probably more akin to Silent Films and how they were made when compared to feature films or TV shows today. Watch television, there is a wide variety of types of shows and the way entertainment is produced. Why should animation be any different? Just because an artist can draw a character, make it walk around, that doesn't necessarily make them a storyteller, no matter how brilliant the artist may be.

I think board-driven series are great, love Spongebob, huge fan of the old Felix the Cat cartoons (too oft not mentioned IMHO)--- but damn, there's not just one way to make a cartoon. Okay, so hate the "writer" or the person who contributes an idea or concept who doesn’t draw, but I've seen too many "board written/driven" series that look, sound, and act like every other "board written" series to believe that there's only 1 single, proper and good way to produce a cartoon.

I too find it sad that the history of animation being chronicled today will not mark "non-artists" or their contributions (mine included) and I pay for that "honor".

Anonymous said...

Keep seating on those beautiful well written scripts(I'm not being snarky, I'm assuming the afore mentioned to be true) and one day they may end up being archived.

Roy said...

It's pointless to attempt an earnest discussion with Stephen. He's someone who believes that if you don't like what he likes for all the same reasons, you're just wrong.

His way of debating something is to write tirades that are so long and so tiresome that you can't possibly read every word, so you're forced to throw up your hands and say "Whatever" and get on with your life.

Even if it were true that all cartoons would be better if they were written by cartoonists (an already pointless topic to debate since "good" is so subjective) the fact is it's just not practical.

Cartoons would probably look better if they had infinite budgets, infinite deadlines and were written, storyboarded, directed, in-betweened and inked by one person, too... but that's simply not practical in the real world.

Anonymous said...

Steve has posted an example of what a good storyboard is.

Now, let's see an example of what a good animation script looks like.

Then we'll have the best of both worlds!

Labels: pudding?!?!? Mwhah hah hah!

Matt Wayne said...

I can't draw, but the first story editor I ever had, Jim Gomez, can draw very well, and he told me I was a good writer. He also wrote scripts with a computer, even though he could have designed and boarded the whole show himself.

Rich Pursel, my story editor on Tom and Jerry, can draw, although I don't think anything but his sculpture has ever been in a cartoon. He wrote a lot of Ren and Stimpy, with a computer, and was story editor on Ripping Friends, too. John K thinks he's a good writer and he thinks I'm a good writer.

Bruce Timm can draw and he thinks I'm a good writer.

Why should I believe Steven Worth when people who can draw say I'm a good writer? Can Steven draw at all?

When you've got something lke a cartoon passing through 50 pairs of hands as it's made, it's not whether the story's written in a scripted format or not that matters, but whether a single person is the defining sensibility for the cartoon, and whether that person's any good at amusing the audience.

Also, appreciation of animation history has nothing to do with being able to make good cartoons. I've been an animation dork longer than Leonard Maltin and much more consistently. It's surprising how infrequently Dave Fleischer's vulgar gags ruining the pacing of "Dizzy Dishes" comes up in a story meeting. Why am I illegitimate unless I know who did what, credited and uncredited, four generations ago? Isn't being able to call up examples of good and bad stuff the most you can get out of history, and can't that be accomplished without knowing who Warren Foster was?

Steve said...

It's a good point.

And eloquently put.

I wonder... What would happen if you posted this opinion at the Asifa archive, or on John K's blog?

(If you do, feel free to link the site!)

Matt Wayne said...

Nah, those guys scare me. Vincent made a similar point, let them flame somebody who can draw.

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